Very well said Jim.. I've travelled all the way to London and scoped some decent venues but NONE of them pay! I think it's a disgrace. At least with Llama all the profits do go to charity- with the odd bit of cash for extra expenses coming out of Holly & I's pockets every now and then of course.. I think it's appalling Becky isn't getting paid to play further away, I've seen some shockingly bad & over rated acts elsewhere on my travels {hell even in Worcester} and I know they get paid- usually cus they boast about it to me after I've played for nothing which up until recently was fine.. Well it's about the music isn't it? And surely you have to put a price on that when you have to travel to say London to play in Notting Hill via a coach from Birmingham. Johnj, I and meteor street used to have a van so travelling wasnt really a problem it was cost tho like you say but usually we had the good fortune of a pretty good turn out so we missed this whole bring 20 people thing. In some cases Johnj was pretty adamant we got the petrol money back. But recently its been a case of busking and selling CDs to have the lovely honour of playing somewhere far away, travelling their at our expense and then doing it all for nothing..
I don't get this bring your audience thing, I think it's a good idea to bring friends to gigs but when that isn't possible why the hell doesn't the promoter do their job? I know first hand how much hassle promoting/flyering is and how it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't..
For example Dali Llama was promoted via what we call Gorilla flyering - wheres you go to another event and flyer the audience their, for a change I decided to give the majority of colour flyers to people who have never been to a llama or just the once, then we informed the local radio, papers. To my surprise it was all over radio H&W anyway and mentioned so many bloody times, partly thanx to Lewis so that was all pretty much overkill.. but I think what really sold the event at the end of the day was the fact decent bands were playing it, the word has really spread about it now so its less of a secret {as we are now actually allowed to flyer it}, the help from fat rat ensured a decent sound- hence the increase in turn out for Dec, Jan, Feb right up to the ridiculous march Llama.
Why every venue can't use a similar ethical strategy and like you say care about the music over the profit I don't know! As it goes Holly & I may be the newest of the well known promoters in town but we are both broke pretty much all the time.. Just cause from the start we decided to do it for ART MUSIC and CHARITY
The other point about this is that we have turned up at the odd gig where there has been hardly anyone in the pub in the first place, we may have driven quite a way to get there (petrol costs and car wear and tear), done the gig and we are the only ones buying at the bar so they don't just get it for free they get our hard earned cash as well and we could have spent it in a good pub instead of a freezing cold and unwelcoming dive at times.
Musicians are by there very nature creative people and finding alternative venues to perform is not difficult and I give you the Llama lounge as a classic example and if push comes to shove they could come up with a lot more. The only positive is that the pubs that really have music and not just profit at the heart of it (eg the Firefly) will end up being the major beneficiaries as the process of weeding out the pure profit merchants from the scene starts to take effect.
See the blog from the FAT RAT PRODUCTIONS MySpace site:
"There is a disturbing new factor slowly creeping into the local music scene that really has to stop. Sadly, it is prevalent in the big cities but now promoters and venue owners in the market towns of England are getting in on the scam and that is what it is ... a scam.
The deal is very often this:
Bands/performers are offered gigs - great, the more the merrier although these gigs are at venues which may or may not be ideal for local music - a matter of opinion.
The gigs are "no pay" gigs - not that is a problem for the aspiring muso's - after all most are quite happy to play and as they become more established, the performers will work the bigger venues where there is a contract of payment. If not then, there should be. Nevertheless, less established performers will opt for no pay, because it is the only way to get exposure.
However, the "catch clause" that promoters and venue owners are now demanding from performers is to play at venue x, y or z, you have to guarantee that you bring an audience with you! The numbers vary; we have seen promoters demanding that the performer brings at least twenty people to the most extreme being four hundred! Remember, these are for "no fee" gigs!
Now we know times are (perceived to be) hard for the pub and club trade and that because of these "hard times", many punters are staying at home or being selective where they want to be entertained, but putting the onus on the performer or the band to ensure a "crowd" is present at the gig is really extracting the urine.
Performers and bands naturally have vested interest to ensure their "fan base" know where they are performing, but equally it is the responsibility of venue owners or promoters ensure that they too advertise the event/gig/performance. At the end of the day, it is the promoter or venue owner who will "trouser the profits" from bar sales etc - and the performer/band nothing as the agreement was for "no fee".
It seems that these unscrupulous promoters and venue owners want it all and to "off-load" all the risk on to the performer/band/musician. This is not on and we at Fat Rat Productions deplore this growing practice.
So to all our friends who care for "live" music, can we suggest that you avoid promoters and venues who offer "no fee" gigs and "demand" that you bring a minimum audience.
Equally can we encourage you to avoid venues or promoters who are not prepared to lift a finger to advertise your gig or are not prepared to accept the risk that they may have an empty house.
In fact please let everyone know who these unscrupulous people or venues are, so that we can avoid them like the plague. And if you are a member of the Musicians Union, please let them know too, because this scam really has to stop.
By all means opt for "no fee" gigs if you wish, but please do not be lumbered with the job of finding customers for the promoter and/or venue owner. That is their job, not yours. This is a scam that will not benefit you or any of your fellow muso's.
